Christopher Angelo: 0:04

Solar is at less than 1% market penetration outside of California and Hawaii. And so if we have a, a product which can deliver the same value proposition at a third of the cost and, with no exposure to, subsidy risk, then. If these other companies are worth$9 billion, 4 billion, 3 billion, 3 billion, and they're stuck at less than 1% of market penetration. I feel pretty good about our vision and what we're doing

Tom Raftery: 0:36

Good morning, good afternoon, or good evening wherever you are in the world. This is the climate 21 podcast. The number one podcast, showcasing best practices and climate emissions reductions. And I'm your host global vice president for SAP, Tom Raftery. Climate 21 is the name of an initiative by SAP to allow our customers calculate report and reduce their greenhouse gas emissions. In this climate 21 podcast, I would showcase best practices and thought leadership by SAP, by our customers, by our partners and, by our competitors, if they're game in climate emissions reductions. Don't forget to subscribe to this podcast in your podcast app of choice, to be sure you don't miss any episodes. Hi, everyone. Welcome to the climate 21 podcast. My name is Tom Raftery with SAP and with me on the show today, I have my special guest, Chris, Chris, welcome to the podcast. Would you like to introduce you?

Christopher Angelo: 1:32

Yeah, thanks for having me really appreciate your time. I am Christopher Angelo, a CEO of a dynamic glass company called glass dynamics. Uh, we are. Based out of Tucson, Arizona, and, uh, commercialized during the, uh, cop 26 conference in Scotland. And, um, we are currently, looking forward to, um, you know, continue our, our growth and penetration of the market. A lot of exciting things going on and, uh, happy to chat with you.

Tom Raftery: 2:02

Oh, fantastic. And so Chris. I guess, first of all, can you give people who are listening a little bit of your own background? Because I think that's interesting and it leads us into the glass dynamics conversation nicely.

Christopher Angelo: 2:16

Yeah, sure. Uh, happy to do that. Yeah. So I'm originally from, a town called York, Pennsylvania, which is in, uh, south central Pennsylvania. And then from there went to, uh, New York city and, uh, began, my career in the, uh, the investment banking groups in structured products in particular at a, at city group and they're moved to, uh, to Deutsche bank. And, I kind of went through the, uh, the, the ranks and was promoted and left, from Deutsche bank, you know, realizing that, didn't want to dislike B , a career banker when I was older in my career, so went back to grad school in the UK at the London school of economics, uh, returned and worked for a mentor for mine, um, on the investing side where we focused on, credit derivatives and, uh, Uh, in, in particular, uh, project finance, loan investing. Uh, so, uh, from there, um, grew for a business for about three years and then the financial crisis hit and, you know, without going into all the minutia of it, we w we're a very sophisticated, uh, uh, structured product, a machination, which was effectively kind of. Dead upon the first wave of the financial crisis. And, uh, you know, after that I took a year off and, you know, got better at, uh, golf. And then, you know, the, the only person that would, hire me was, uh, it was actually a solar company out, out the bay area. So my, my wife and I kind of were in, uh, Connecticut at the time, just outside of New York city and uh, we always had this goal to, to move west. And so it was looking for jobs in Silicon valley. And, um, basically I, I wanted to get into operational finance and, uh, you get the, the company that hired me was this, uh, this solar manufacturing company where we manufactured, uh, solar wafers and solar cells. And the concept behind the, the company was that we were taking lower grade Silicon feedstock and converting that into, you know, market standard, solar cells and then downstream to, uh, to modules. And from there, we. Acquired an upstream supplier of the, um, of the Silicon, which I was referring to. And, you know, from that, that vantage point is really able to use my, uh, my background in banking and investing to really position that the company well for, uh, for capital raises and, you know, so be it, we were, uh, for example, back in 2000, it was 2011 at the time. We're one of five companies that was awarded a DOE loan guarantee, conditional commitment of which we declined that and went for a private market route. And, you know, that was, um, a long tenor of, development, et cetera, real hands-on. you know, structuring execution, contracts, et cetera, of a, a $1.2 billion Silicon manufacturing plant, which we're going to put in Iceland. And eventually we succumb to the, the Chinese as well as, uh, many other, uh, solar companies that were out there. But along the way, eventually. Effectively from starting over again from, you know, being an analyst, um, was the, the CFO of the, the company by the time that I left and, you know, from the area saw the, the entire investment cycle and operational cycle of a company from really, you know, from R and D through scaling. You have two manufacturing plants, um, through, it was effectively return of capital or licensing, the technology to, uh, to the Chinese and there's a bit more to that story. And, uh, but I'll be at, you know, the, they call the solar industry and I'm sure you've heard the term before the, uh, the solar coaster. but I mean, it was a wild ride and just, frankly, a, a fantastic experience that, you know, a lot of that plays into to me, together with my past background and kind of, um, all built into, um, to really what glass dynamics is today. And, when I left the, the solar company, then the founder of, uh, a VAT company, which, um, when it's originally founded, it was called Kelly solar. Then we changed the name to a, to silica core, uh, materials. Uh, but anyways, the founder of that company introduced me to this glass company. And at the same time, I also became an advisor for a technology, insurance company that's called New Energy Risk. And what the company does there is, uh, right guarantees to, uh, investors, uh, who are interested in investing in a new climate technologies, really at first commercial scale, high volume manufacturing, but they don't want to take the technology risk. And, you know, from my vantage point of, um, it called being. More of an investor in that kind of role. It's allowed me to see really the, the tire, you know, domain of what clean tech is today, uh, with all the problems, um, you know, as well as the, the opportunities as well. And from that vantage point, you know, together with my background You know, values, everything else that's really kind of played into what glass dynamics is today. but around it, you know, you got to surround yourself with, uh, with good people and think, you know, I've been fortunate enough to have, good people around. That's kind of a value that I still bring today and trying to look at, you know, what are the, what are the kind of the hardest things that can be figured out and you know, how can I be part of the solution?

Tom Raftery: 8:09

Cool. Good. And, and so tell me about glass dynamics. What is Glass Dynamics and what was the, Genesis behind the setting it up?

Christopher Angelo: 8:18

Yeah. So, uh, so glass dynamics is a, dynamic glass company. And dynamic glass is glass that tints and untints upon application of an electric charge. what happens is that when, uh, when the glass is in a clear state, it's just like any normal window with, you know, the same, a thermal and, solar parameters, of, equivalent glass. Uh, but then what happens when you touch a button? Um, the glass can go from, for example, you know, 60 to 70%, visible transmission down to as low as, you know, one to 3%. And so what's happening then is that the glass is modulating the solar heat, which is coming through the window decreasing the amount of, of heat, which is coming to the inside. And so what that means for a building occupant, not going into any market in particular here now is a more comfortable, experience whereby the temperature is, uh, is cooler as well as when, when the tint is at one to 3%, it acts as an effective, uh, glare control as well. Uh, so, and of course, in addition to that, it's a, it's a window. Um, so it's really kind of a three in one, type product. And in addition to that, it's one of these, of one of these types of products that you'll, you'll see it where in the first couple of sentences after somebody sees it, they're going to, you're going to hear the word cool. It's it's going to come out. And so, you know, we market our glasses, uh, you know, kind of the, the cool glass changing worldviews and, you know, get there. There's a lot more that's that's behind that. But, um, Yeah. the, the point of that, that cool part is, you know, similar to an EV it's a fundamentally new in advanced user experience. And so what that means then is that there is a high subjective value premium, which is related to the grass, a glass, which creates a willingness to pay on the customer's part. And. Uh, the, the glass itself, then it could be applicable to the residential market, the commercial market, uh, to the, the automobile market and the, the personal electronics market as well. So there's, there's a lot, uh, that is, uh, is exciting, uh, about the space. And what's interesting about it as well, is that. You may have seen this glass for the last, you know, 20 to 30 years. Uh, so, so for example, in your, your car, the, the automobile auto-dimming mirror, you know, the CTO of glass dynamics and, you know, together with, uh, the, um, our VP of product development, they were co-inventors of the core technology underlying that product. And, uh, Yeah. One of the knocks on, on dynamic glass is the expense of it. But the reality is, um, did the example, which I just gave is an example of a product which has been, or is mass produced today? Um, 700,000 mirrors a week at a 30% profit margin. So that's, you know, after taxes and everything else, so it can be highly profitable to manufacture. And, you know, given our, CTO or technology team's experience, they were asked by early pioneers in this space to, to consult, uh, to go out and, uh, have, uh, certain recommendations or, you know, ask them about their, their technical structure. And, and how they can optimize their technology. And yeah, they just had this idea that, we could do it better. Uh, so on the, the technical side, I think they saw a vision of, of what it could be. And the technology was, uh, originally funded back in, um, 2017. And we were. Uh, we were accepted into this Wells Fargo I and two program, which is a DOE funded, you know, grant grant program through the national renewable energy laboratory and the initial product. That we proved at that point is the product that we are commercializing today. And to go back again to that, uh, automobile auto-dimming mirror example, what our CTO did was he effectively took that technology and figured out how to make it work during the day. And because it works during the day, then you can apply it to buildings. So that's kind of the, the Genesis of the technology, at least on the technical side, but then there's also the commercial side as well. So I'll pause there, you know, see if you have to have any questions or anything.

Tom Raftery: 14:28

Yeah. Sure. So basically the idea of, if I'm distilling it, is that the windows darken during these sunlight hours, reducing the amount of heat going into the home, thereby reducing the amount of air conditioning required. I said home, it could be an office commercial space, as well as reducing the amount of, air conditioning required in that building. Is that it?

Christopher Angelo: 14:53

That's yeah, that's, that's exactly right. And you know, there's a bit more to it. And when I initially described the technology here, I used the term building. But there are two distinct markets for architectural glass and one is commercial and the other is residential and existing companies in this space have focused on the commercial market. Uh, and, and the reason is, is because, you know, there are higher margins which are available in the commercial market. In addition to that, it's easier to have, you know, longer runs of larger surface area of glass, which means potentially, you know, higher yields for example. And each of those companies, uh, you know, in order to do that, you've got to go out and invest in what amounts to hundreds of millions of dollars in CapEx to do that. On the commercial side, it's really challenging to in, in our, this is our point of view that there is a sustainability, uh, story on the commercial side. There's no doubt there's a sustainable story, but we think that the bigger opportunity is in the, the residential market and. One of the reasons for that is, you know, if you're in a commercial building and, uh, and you put the blinds down, you know, does, does an occupant want to sit in a room with the blinds down for, you know, a good part of the day. If it's warm out in the middle of the summer, there may not be direct sun. Um, uh, but there's, you know, there's also some anecdotal evidence out there that, uh, that is something that building occupants that they don't want, that they don't like it when, you know, when that the glass is tinted down to one to 3%. So our idea is more in the, the residential market. And that is, because, you know, when, when individuals go to work during the day, or, you know, you leave your room. You're typically not in every room in your house. Um, but you know, you turn the lights off and, you know, in this kind of glass, when it is dimming, it's effectively turning the lights off and saving heat. So you, you're not really. Uh, confronted with that, that choice of do I to, I want the blinds down or not, because they effectively go on automatically when, you know, you leave the room or, uh, or a building. And so then the idea as you were mentioning, uh, initially is, so when you come home, then, instead of being 82 degrees on the inside, it's 75. And, uh, because it is a lower temperature than that's less, time. It's less effort that is needed out of the, the HVAC system. And that helps to reduce, peak demand and it chip away with the, uh, the duck curve of which you may be familiar with in terms of, uh, you know, power generation capacity over the, at the time of day. And addition to that, there's an EV tie in here. like, what's, what's going to happen with the future of EVs and work. If individuals are, you know, out during the day and they'd come home and was going to, you know, you're going to plug in your, your EV and, and there's no solution really to, well, what are we going to deal with? The, extra demand, which that we'll put on the grid and the extra generation capacity, which will be required. So our concept again, is that let's chip away at the, neck of that and the head of that, that duck curve. And, you know, and try to make some, efficiency gains such that, we can prevent, you know, the, the need for additional, whether it's coal and, or, you know, natural gas, power plants. So, yeah, I think there's a lot to be excited about on, on that side. And, in going to kind of, what is that customer value proposition of the, the residential side. And I haven't gotten into the kind of the start of the vision at that is, when you think about what this technology can do in terms of energy efficiency, you know, the, the idea that we have is I could give you the same value proposition as a residential solar module array at a third of the cost with no exposure to subsidy risk. So that is a really unique vision that we have that is highly differentiated in the market today. And the technology that we have is 21 patents, 15 issued. which, we're you looking forward to scaling here. And what that means is given our, technology advantage as well, which is effectively our moat, is that we can, produce at a lower cost than the competition. Now, you know, we don't necessarily market that as being low cost, you know, it's. All about higher value. But you know, going back again to the value proposition of the, the solar module value proposition, a third of the cost with no exposure to, to subsidy risk, uh, that's a vision that we have that is unique. And one in which, uh, yeah actually happy to announce even yesterday that the us department of energy of which we're a four time DOE uh, award winner, uh, they, um, effectively issued a press release, um, really corroborating and agreeing with our vision that it's in there for, for what this can be. So, you know, that's a really, exciting and, even momentous, milestone and validation point for us and, you know, look forward to, uh, to building from, from there.

Tom Raftery: 20:34

Okay. And you said the, the glass, changes color when it has an electrical current applied to it. I'm assuming that that's low and once-off on off rather than constant, or if it's constant, it's very low. So I'm sure you're not consuming a lot of electricity. If you have a house full of these windows.

Christopher Angelo: 20:55

That's correct. It is a constant, charge, uh, at least with, our generation one technology and the, the voltage and the current consumer should say that the wattage of it is it's about one, 100th of a light bulb.

Tom Raftery: 21:08

Okay. And if I already have windows in my home, which you know, most people do at this point, um, Do I swap them out for this? Or do I add this to them? Or how does that all work?

Christopher Angelo: 21:26

Yeah. So this would be swapped out in a one for one trade, for the windows. And there would have to be a wiring which would go to, an outlet in the house. One of the reasons that we like the residential market as well is, you know, homeowners and consumers now, I think are are conditioned that, your home electronics wiring, et cetera, is, a low risk venture as it, uh, it wasn't in the past and. Uh, whereas in a commercial building, I think about the, a wiring Everett everywhere while that is pretty commonplace with, cat six cables, everything else. It's, it's a pretty expensive endeavor, uh, especially to, to get it to code as well. You know, our view is it's kind of, you know, lower risk, lower cost, uh, to put it in the home, as well. So it would be swapped out.

Tom Raftery: 22:16

Okay. And I know we swapped our windows here in this house, uh, last year and we. We did it because we wanted to improve the insulation in the house. So we put in a windows that are double glazed with about 16 millimeters between the two panes of glass. And, uh, so, well, I guess the question is, do these windows fit into a double glazed enclosure or for some people who might be in Alaska, maybe a treble glazed enclosure, or is it single pane or how's that work?.

Christopher Angelo: 22:51

Yeah, it can be any of the above, uh, we have, products spec great now, which is both, for the, residential market applications and, what they like in the residential market, whether or not it's a 16 millimeter gap, as you said, or whether it's even down to 12, there is a, relationship between the, the spacer itself and the, the thermal efficiency or the, U value of the window. And so whatever that is, you just want the, the window itself to be either, an inch thick or three quarter inch, or you kind of something in between for the, the residential market. And, the specifications that we have today, can meet that spec.

Tom Raftery: 23:34

Okay. And if I have a, let's say in this case, a double-glazed window, which is a standard, double glazed window or a double-glazed window, which is a glass dynamic dynamic glass window. What am I looking at in terms of cost difference between the two upfront?

Christopher Angelo: 23:51

Right. Right, right. So, um, our window would be about 50% more expensive. And one of the key reasons for that is, you know, not only the fact that So what this is is it's a, a laminated, a laminated panel, uh, that is here. So that's, you know, two pieces of glass. And so there you're automatically doubling the amount of glass that is, that is there. And. Uh, and then what happens is that as the, the glass goes, you know, down the, the logistics chain, every participant in the chain kind of takes their cuts. So from there, the, the costs kind of, uh, get added and hence the, uh, the higher cost.

Tom Raftery: 25:04

Okay. And given that this is the climate 21 podcast, what is that going to save me in terms of my, let's say electricity usage? Because, well, I don't know about, uh, in the U S or even in parts of the U S but here where I am in Spain houses are cooled or houses are warmed mostly via electricity directly. It's not using gas burners, it's not using oil, anything like that. It's just electricity and heating air. Uh, so if it was in that kind of environment, what's my savings in terms of electricity?

Christopher Angelo: 25:41

All right, so be up to 20%. So there are a lot of studies out there, uh, whether it's, as simple using blinds or even with dynamic glass, which, you know, support, an up to 20% energy savings, benefit. And, you know, when you look at really what that is, uh, that is equivalent to, to a residential rooftop, solar module system. So when we're thinking about, you know, the, the, the market for, for this product. And, uh, I have some advisors who, worked at Tesla, worked at, uh, at SunPower, you know, highly experienced, um, uh, solar companies and, you know, in thinking about what this company could, could be in the future and kind of trying to read the tea leaves as to if we wanted to make this really big, you know, how, how could the company get really big and support, you know, huge valuation and, and be a win-win for consumers as well as society. And, you know, something I keep on my desk is, um, is a solar cell that is here. And so at, uh, at my solar company, uh, again, uh, In California, we produce 20 million solar cells and this was cell number, uh, 2 0 4, which came off of our production line. And there's a little plaque here. It's got my name on it and it has the, yeah, the performance parameters on the, uh, on the label that are here. And so in sitting in here and thinking about the, you know, the value proposition, the energy savings of this glass, you know, think, oh, uh, it's a business that, that investors and consumers understand is the solar business. You know, the, the business model itself, uh, has been, been validated and yeah. I kind of how that came to be and know I was a part of this, uh, uh, you know, first person in witnessing the, the solar transition in the United States from manufacturing to installation from, uh, 2005 to 2015, and really what was left standing after that uh, what I call a clean tech 1.0 transition where some extremely valuable clean tech companies that happened to be solar companies and the most valuable one in the U S which is, you know, applicable to the residential market is a company called Sunrun, which at the time it was going through this, it was about valued at 9 billion dollars. Company right behind it, which is about four or so is a SunPower. And, then, you know, there are others, for example, that were again there at 2015, that we're a solar city and, uh, in vivid in both solar city and bid and sold for $3 billion. So, you know, it's like, how can I create the story? How can I frame a story in which investors are just, are going to get it as well as this, this win-win. And so it just kind of sitting there originally started to pencil it out on, uh, on paper and the way that the, the sun comes down, uh, You know, in terms of, uh, you know, at one atmosphere and what the, the, the strength of the, the, the solar array is, is, you know, for what that results in just in the solar industry is, is an efficiency at, at one side. And so here, for example, in this cell, it's 15% efficiency. And so in thinking about that, um, again, as you started to pencil it out and say, okay, if I have to pencil this out with glass, you know, how, how would that work? And so started doing all the math and, you know, think about our glass again, when it goes from. Uh, from, you know, clear to, to dark what's happening is that we're modulating that solar heat gain coefficient. So even when you bought your glass and it's got, uh, you know, the, the thermal value, but also the, the solar control value to it And when it's say, for example, if you bought your, um, you know, your, your double glazed glass in your perhaps it's, uh, uh, solar heat gain coefficient in the, the point 3 range. All right. And so what that means is effectively just generically speaking, you know, 30% of the solar energy, which is coming down from the sun is coming through. So there's not a direct relation to a solar cell that's there, but thinking dynamically, when we changed the glass from. Clear too tinted. You know what? There, there's a dynamic solar control action that is happening there. And there's an equivalent to, uh, to what's happening in, in a solar cell. And when a homeowner buys a, a solar module, you know, they're not buying it like a utility scale homeowner where, you know, you're going to make a solar farm and you're going to have a long-term power purchase agreement with a utility. You're buying it because now you've been told that it's going to, to pay back in, uh, in, you know, seven years in a sunny climate, and it's going to lower your, uh, your monthly heating bill. So then the question became a bit, and again, this is still going through trying to challenge the idea. And trying to figure out, you know, what is the truth here of what's going on and is this possible? And, uh, and that led me to, um, two things and one, and they're both related to finance again, given my background on a, on wall street in particular in structured products, I know that the true description of an asset is in, um, in asset backed securities. So, uh, and getting through the whole, you know, wall street thing. Um, I was actually always in the group, if you're familiar with the movie big, short, that was my group on wall street. So I'm, I'm an alumni that, that group, um, and you know, very, uh, You know, detail oriented, risk seeking. Um, but you're always looking for you to look for or says, what is the asset what's, what's the truth that that is out there. And so I went in found, um, a securitization rating report from the, the largest provider of, uh, of solar financing in the U S and lo and behold, I found out that the actual payback of these assets was over 20 years at 21 years. And the, the average cost of a system as approximately is about $34,000. And, and, and that's just the fact of, of what is there. And so taking that information. And, and trying to reconcile that with, you know, six to seven years that you commonly see in the, the market place, if you go out onto the various websites, whether it's Tesla, whether it is, um, you know, SunPower anywhere else. And just this doesn't make sense. There's a disequilibrium there of what the, the financing market says is true. And what these other companies say is true. So that led me to, to believe that, okay, so what else is going on here? And part of that goes back to, again, my experience in the solar industry, which is what we call the, solar inflection point on, on a grid or grid saturation. And what happens is that as more solar comes on to the grid, uh, as you know, the individuals who can afford solar. They come off of the grid, but then the other individuals within the, grid, or region, they'll need to pay for the fixed cost of, running the grid as well. And so there's an injustice at the same time, which is here and what that means. And looking at the, the growth of solar is that residential solar is not really a part of the solar game, if you will, it's, it's actually a under 20%, today in forecast it to, to decline, uh, the, the solar market is in the residential space and there's this constant conflict between, you know, what is now perceived as quote unquote, you know, solar for rich people. And I see that as an injustice and there's a truth that's behind that, results in the fact that, uh, solar is at less than 1% market penetration outside of California and Hawaii. And so if we have a, a product which can deliver the same value proposition at a third of the cost and, uh, with no exposure to, to subsidy risk, then. If these other companies are worth$9 billion, 4 billion, 3 billion, 3 billion, and they're stuck at less, less than 1% of market penetration. I feel pretty good about our vision and what we're doing and to have the, you know, the DOE now on board with us, uh, um, yeah, there, I think there's a lot to be excited about. So that's just some of them the background of, you know, what, what's the problems in the solar industry? At the same time, what it did again, given my, my finance background is what are these customers? What are they really telling the, the market? What are they, what are they telling their investors? Even back when they went public and everything else. So I went back to to Sunrun's, 2017 IPO registration statement. And, you know, you go look up in the management discussion, the business description, and what they said is our goal and it's, and it's actually in a, like a picture that is in their S1 . And it says our goal is to save customers 20% on energy savings over 20 years. And you think about that. And it's like, okay, that's, that's interesting. And yeah, again, I think that we could do the same thing and then looking up further through their additional 10 Ks, they have since dropped that even most recently to, uh, their, their 2000, uh, 2010 K, uh, which, which says that. We want to be a meaningful reduction and, uh, opportunity for our customers, you know, monthly utility bills. So, you know, again, that point about what they're marketing to customers and what is commonly marketed to customers in terms of, the potential of solar is different than what the actual underlying market is saying. So I believe that fundamentally, that dynamic glass can play a role in benefiting or solving that problem and hence, you know, benefiting not only society, but, homeowners and customers as well.

Tom Raftery: 36:33

Cool. Cool. Chris, we're coming towards the end of the podcast. Now, is there any question I haven't asked that you wish I had, or any aspect of this, we've not touched on that you think it's important for people to be aware of?

Christopher Angelo: 36:46

Yeah, I think one thing is, uh, it's related to, uh, to subsidies and, and that's something that, uh, is, kind of in my, my belief system, a very, uh, free markets oriented and visual, I, um, you know, even back, as far back as, um, you know, college, I went in and studied, for a year, economics at, uh, at the London school of economics. And again, you know, love it so much. And I love structured products and went back and again, focusing more in law and accounting. But the, the point of that is you know, I, I see the, the need for a subsidy as, it can turn investors into, whether it's investors and, or, you know, project developers or even operators and founders into this vision that, okay, I can build a product, uh, and it's going to work. But if an only if that there are subsidies available and that is a truth a reality today that I believe is, uh, uh, is not true. And I believe that there are opportunities out there where by we can create, you know, technologies, which, uh, which we can, uh, commercialize and scale without the need for, for subsidies. And so that's one of the, core principles and ideas, uh, behind glass dynamics as well is how can we challenge ourselves as hard as possible to create a product which can, you know, benefit the environment, you know, society and homeowner or the customer, you know, without the need for, for subsidies. And what is happening at the same time is again, going back to that, that solar analogy is that there was actually a bill that was introduced in Congress last year. And it was effectively had our company name in it. It was called the dynamic glass act of 2021. And what that does is it, provides for an up to 30% investment tax credit in, investing in, electro chromic glass installations. And so that opportunity is there and that will provide, uh, you know, a huge opportunity for us to, to grow and scale. And again, looking at the analogous situation to, uh, to solar. If you think about a business model, similar to a Sunrun where we own the installation as well, and we could effectively own the, uh, the glass system as well and collect the investment tax credit, just similar to all the other solar installation companies that are out there. So the. You know, I call it kinda like the, uh, the dark horse business model, which is, is out there. It could be, you know, a really, um, a really valuable opportunity for, for us. Um, but it all gets back to the fact that, you know, looking at subsidies in the clean energy space, how can we really challenge ourselves to solve one of the biggest problems in the world while, you know, really looking to ourselves to, to solve the problem rather than relying on somebody else. And that kind of, I think, you know, close it out nicely to even where I came from back in Pennsylvania, it's that you, you can't rely on somebody else to get to where you are. I think you have to have an attitude, and the confidence that you've got to figure it out you're yourself and, um, you know, and it kinda thinking, um, you know, a little bit more on the, the journey and where it all came from I was, uh, in, in Pennsylvania, I was, I was top 10 in the state in, uh, in running as a distance runner. Um, you know, clearly don't look like that now, but, uh, but anyways, the, point is, is that, you know, you've got to sometimes, go on your own, take the hard road to, to really figure things out. And, um, you know, thing I didn't share about my background is also a graduate of a us Marine Corps officer candidate school, which I'm very proud about. And that's, uh, you know really important aspect of my background. But again, it goes to show that. You know, if you want to, to really figure it out and progress, try, try the hard route, try to do things that nobody else is doing, differentiate yourself. But really rely on yourself don't rely on other people and that's, again, you know, going back to that subsidy conversation, it's just an attitude that we bring. And, that is really, I think, part of, uh, us in, in a special part of this story.

Tom Raftery: 40:59

Cool. Cool. Chris thats been great. If people want to know more about yourself or about dynamic glass, where would you have me direct them?

Christopher Angelo: 41:09

Sure. So you go to our website, which is www, dot, dynamics.com. And that is D Y E N A M I C S uh, and then in addition to that, if you want to send a, an email to me, yeah, maybe the, the easiest way is to send an email at, you know, hello@dynamics.com. or, uh, christopher@dynamics.com as well.

Tom Raftery: 41:33

Super super great. Chris, that's been fantastic. Thanks a million for coming on the show today.

Christopher Angelo: 41:39

All right. Well, it's been wonderful. Really appreciate your time and yeah, look forward to keeping in touch and, um, ever any questions that, you know, I can, help you with happy to, do that.

Tom Raftery: 41:50

Okay, we've come to the end of the show. Thanks everyone for listening. If you'd like to know more about climate 21, feel free to drop me an email to Tom dot Raftery @ sap.com or connect with me on LinkedIn or Twitter. If you liked the show, please don't forget to subscribe to it in your podcast application of choice to get new episodes as soon as they're published. Also, please don't forget to rate and review the podcast. It really does help new people to find the show. Thanks catch you all next time.