There is not one thing, one time when I researched something around nutrition, Tom, that sustainability doesn't get brought into that conversation because we're eating, and food impacts the climate, right. And how we're raising that food. So, so we really need to understand like, how do I get that nutritious diet while also being climate conscious? Good morning, good afternoon, or good evening, wherever you are in the world. Welcome to episode 241 of the Climate Confident Podcast, the go-to show for best practices in climate emission reductions. I'm your host, Tom Raftery, and before we get started, a quick reminder. This podcast now has a subscription option. For just five euros or dollars a month, you can unlock the full back catalog of hundreds of conversations with climate leaders who are actually moving the needle. Subscribers also, get a personal shout out here on the show plus direct access to me so you can pitch new directions, guests and ideas for Climate Confident. Everybody else still gets the most recent 30 days of episodes for free. But if you want access to the archive and a hand on the steering wheel, hit the subscribe button now in the show notes. No new subscribers this week, but if you've been on the fence, now's the time to join. Now onto today's conversation. We often talk on this podcast about big systems change, energy, transport, policy, but this week we're zooming in on something far more personal, the food on your plate. My guest is Sherie Nelson, Senior Director of Responsibility and Wellness at Elior North America, one of the continent's largest food service companies serving millions of meals every week. Sherie leads the integration of nutrition, sustainability, and social impact across Elior's operations from hospitals and universities to corporate cafeterias and senior meal programs. She's the force behind initiatives like Elior's be well and doing good platforms. The company's pledge to make half of all new menus meatless by 2025 and a 64% reduction in food waste since 2022. In this episode, Sherie shares why what's good for people is good for planet, how data and tech are transforming menu design, and what it really takes to make plant forward eating craveable at scale. Sherie, welcome to the podcast. Would you like to introduce yourself? Yeah, for sure. Thanks, Tom. Excited to be here and thanks for having me. am Senior director of Responsibility and Wellness for Elior North America, which is a leading food service contract company. So we work with. A variety of clients in North America, including K through 12 schools, universities, hospitals, corporations, corrections, even senior meals. So in other words, our kitchens really serve thousands of meals across America every day. So sustainability, of course, is a major focus for us. Okay. And how did you get into this? Oh, how did I get into this? That's a great question. I love this because I am a registered dietician, nutritionist by trade. So I did start doing more traditional dietician work, working in the long-term care setting. I've always worked in the food service side of things, so even though I was doing some clinical dietetics, I was kind of overseeing the food service portion of it and making sure, you know, we, our menus were correct or our style of service was inviting, you know, our food was inviting and so forth. So, and then I, did join a food service contract company, back in 2006 and just steadily kept working towards a role where I was, you know, supervising other dieticians, and actually taking a look at sustainability. It became part of a functionality between culinary procurement and us dieticians, how could we incorporate that, you know? It's been a, certainly a focus across all businesses, right? And so we know that we can make an impact. In fact, we know that food in and of itself is a large carbon footprint, and around food production to the time it gets to your table, right? So, there's estimates out there that, that's around 26% of carbon emissions all the way up to 34%. Depends what you're looking at, right? So I like to say at least 25% to be safe, 30%, So I think as a dietician, we have to think about, we, we've been trained to think about where is our food coming from and how is it getting to our plate? And so I have always been very interested in that topic. And, you know, personally I try to incorporate, seasonal, local, I have a big garden myself into my own, you know, own existence, right? So I think in general I'm just quite passionate about, we need to eat, we need to eat good food, we need to eat nutritious food, and we need to eat food that's, you know, generally, I always say if it's good for us, it's good for the planet. And you've recently stepped into this expanded role at Elior. What's changed for you and what you think it says about Elior and how it's evolving its approach to responsibility and wellness? That's great. So, typically I was always really looking at the wellness aspect of our business in my, past role as director of nutrition and wellness specifically. And in, that role, I was really focused on how we're giving our customers nutritious food, not just for their physical wellbeing, but also for their mental wellbeing. And with that, we always look at, you know, we know plants are very healthy for you, and we also know they're very good for our environment. They're, they're lower in the carbon emissions compared to animal-based foods. So, I, I did spearhead some of those initiatives around our plant-based menus and really educating our food service directors, our chefs and our dieticians that aren't as, aware throughout our business so that, we could get more plants on the menu. They would understand the importance of it. And then obviously from the culinary perspective, really working, you know, with the culinary team like, how are we gonna make that inviting and, and tasty to our guests? so I think I already had, you know, my hand in sort of that carbon footprint. I was actually, because I was reporting up to responsibility within our organisation, I was already working on our annual reporting with Elior Group. We're managed by a company based in France. So we have an annual reporting structure, and a lot of that is, around sustainability as well as wellness and health. And so with that said, I also took that information and actually had worked on our internal systems of what are we doing and what is our carbon impact on that, right? So we're using a technology system that can help estimate that for us, and then help actually plan how are we gonna reduce that. So, so I was already kind of dabbling in it, in my role and they knew I was very interested in it. Honestly, I think by, bringing me and having me be part of that, I hope to just elevate it, just general awareness throughout our organisation. More communication and obviously driving more strategy to make sure that, you know, we have our goals and how are we meeting them. So I'm proud that Elior is committed to some of these goals that we have in mind, and I am super excited to help bring these to life within our organisation. Okay. And. Are you using an internal platform or external platform, or how are you measuring and reporting and verifying the emissions across your, your whole food service? That's a great question. Well, it's an external platform, but there are so many data points going into it. So there's all, like we might use some internal data, or an internal platform that's giving us the data. We also are using external platforms, so there are, there are many, many data points and it really needs to, you know, go into this system to help, come up with that number if you will. Okay. You oversee both health and sustainability, which are two areas that are not often paired. Why do you think it's critical to connect these two worlds in food service? Yeah, I have the belief, and I think many others do too, that really what we're eating for our health just generally tends to be really good for the planet as well. And so I think that that connection, needs to be made. You know, when we look across, our business or industry or what American people are looking for, health generally is the driving factor for why Americans make decisions, of what they eat, but environment is coming up close behind, right? So, if they realise, you know, oh, these are, these are two things. They're really coming together, maybe those choices just become easier for them. I also think there is not one thing one time when I researched something around nutrition, Tom, that sustainability doesn't get brought into that conversation because, we're eating and food impacts the climate, right. And how we're raising that food. So, so we really need to understand like, how do I get that nutritious diet while also being climate conscious? And I think, you know, more and more people are looking to make, those decisions and, put those together. And what is the state of sustainability in large scale food service today? You know, where are we winning and where are we still stuck? Okay. That's great. And I can kinda speak from, you know, Elior's perspective too, and, and just doing research, my own research and you know, what our competition also where they're at. So, think there's a couple things that I see our industry doing really well. Number one is probably reducing food waste. Okay, we have been measuring this since 2022, a, a baseline group, across our business that represents our entire business. And since 2022, we've reduced food waste by 64%. Now, that was a pretty basic way of doing it, just saving what are we wasting and measuring it. And putting it, you know, and tracking it, right? So we'd love to see more technology involved with that. I hope this next year we, we will be piloting and looking at some third party system that we bring in that the operators can use. But food waste is just a, a fraction of that part of the 25% of food production carbon footprint. Right. So the other piece of it is, and I'm seeing this more and more and and you may have noticed it yourself, is that general awareness that plants have that less of environmental impact. So I think the food industry is really thinking about that from making plant-based products, right, to contract, food service, or even restaurants, like how are they getting dishes with more plants in them, right? And then maybe offering that meat. So I think we're seeing the industry kind of start embracing that as a whole, because that is the number one way that we're gonna reduce carbon emissions. It is the largest part of that equation. you know, estimates about 15% of that 25% of those emissions is coming from meat and dairy industry alone. So, so it's a big piece of it, right? Where food waste, it might be about 8% of that percentage. So, so good. We still need to do it. But really moving in, increasing those plant-based menus I think is gonna be the biggest, biggest win for most of the industry. I also think, we can start talking about, purchasing sustainable seafood. That's another way that I think the industry is looking and that will certainly support fishing communities but uh, healthy food supply in the future. Sustainable packaging is another way that I think the industry is starting to turn towards and local and seasonal, obviously foods as much as possible. You know, in the states we're pretty spread out, right? And we can have, climate is so variable. But as much as you can, like where, purchasing seasonal and local, local foods will reduce the miles, the food has traveled. So I think those are some great ways that they're doing, and I think, you know, you could start talking about energy efficiency too, in terms of upgrading the equipment, right? Getting smarter lightning lighting, having some energy management systems, which I am definitely not a expert in, but there's certainly some technology systems out there that can, you know, monitor your energy usage a little bit better. So those are all ways that the industry is changing and really, doing better with, doing better with, as a whole. Okay. And how do you bring frontline staff on board with food risk, food waste reduction, and even more? How do you bring your customers along? Because I'm sure a lot of your customers are probably saying to themselves, what's all this plant-based stuff? Why don't we get more meat on our menus? All right. Okay. I'm gonna start with that one because you know, I'm pretty passionate about that one and that one that one I've really had my hands in, for the last couple of years. And you know, you really, you're right, meat's not gonna go away, we're not gonna take it entirely off the plate. Right? There are ways we can do this and, and maybe entice our customers. Well, luckily we're a food service company and we have chefs, right? So, you know, hopefully the chefs can get creative and, and you really, really have to make your dish craveable. Without the meat or less of the, you know, meat or cheese, whatever is in there. They certainly have the ability to do that. So you gotta make it craveable. You, name it something craveable to like, don't call it vegan pasta, call it roasted tomatoes and cannellini bean pasta or something that's just, you know, that's enticing. So we have to really look at that from like the menu perspective. So I also like to think of it in the way of start with familiar favorites, right? What do people typically like to eat here? Tacos, pasta, stir fry, burgers. So, how can you transform those to be plant-based dishes or more plant forward? I say plant-based. I'm thinking a hundred percent plants. When I'm saying plant forward, I'm thinking more reducing amount of meat but still it there, right? So, take those familiar favorites and just either reduce or totally replace, I don't know, many people are pretty open to black bean tacos. Many people are open to a black bean chili, right? So you might be able to make some of those entirely vegan, but you, you could still add a little meat to, keep that flavor there and, and keep, people satisfied. I also love it when we look at menus from that can we start with a plant-based dish by default and give the customer a choice to add the animal protein? Because let's face it, there aren't a lot of vegans. We don't have a high percentage of vegans, but we certainly have a lot of people interested in, in adding more plants to their diets or that flexitarian where they might some days eat meat or some meals, eat the animal protein, and some days not so so can we make that craveable, delicious vegan foundation, you know, dish. And then allow them, okay, no, I'm gonna add, I really want the tofu, the crispy tofu today. I'm gonna add that to my, to my grain bowl instead of the chicken today. So giving 'em that kind of, that option is a great way. And I know at Elior we had, we created a concept based on that, an Eastern Mediterranean concept called mesa table, where we started with that plant based by default. Then allowing the customer to make those add-ons as they saw fit. So those are some really great ways. You also, there are some excellent partners out there in this world that want to help you get more plants on the menu to, to make that impact on climate change. So we have partnered with the Humane World for Animals. They have been a terrific resource and terrific support for us, helping us create training videos for our team members so they understand the why, how to menu and how to promote. Right, because it's all about then promoting that and marketing that well, so, so our customers want to eat it, right? Again, it comes back to does it look good? Does it sound good? And so forth. So the partnerships are key to really help move plants forward. So I think your next question I think was about food waste and really engaging, you know, our team members to be involved. Yep. So I think, you know, right now, the way that we're doing it, it's pretty basic, right? We're measuring our food waste, having a software system. So this is why I'm really excited to move more into a software system that gives the feedback right away to that line staff, right? Let's say they made a dish. And they served it and now they're measuring the waste and it just gives them that feedback right away. Like, oh, we made too much of this and it was this day, so we can correct the menu, we can, you know, update the production by that immediate feedback. But I feel what that system is gonna help that line worker do is really make that connection, oh, we, we cut too many of those red bell peppers. We really didn't need that many. And it can make that immediate change, right? They get the feedback right away. So the next time they gotta cut those red bell peppers. They know. Wow, I got that feedback and I really need to be careful not to to overproduce this in any, in any way. So I think the technology is gonna help engage the line staff more, but I think right now, you know, we do it. We just have them report and graphically put it up, here we go. We're looking at this week's food waste. Is it declining? Is it going up? Like what, where are we at? Are we, are we still on trajectory? I think the software will help us, break us down very specifically to what we're wasting, right? So I really look forward to that greater engagement with the line staff. Okay, and have you seen any real cultural shifts in how people respond to meatless meals today versus let's say five years ago? Oh, you know, I do. I think people are more willing to try it than they were five years ago, I think five years ago, it wasn't maybe, well, why, like the why wasn't so prevalent. I think now there's a why and people that, are thinking about the climate, thinking about tomorrow and the future of the planet. they are realising, oh, this can kind of shift it. Now again, I'm not sure that everyone's willing to entirely give it up, but maybe they are for a day. Maybe they are for a meal. Maybe they're just willing to reduce it everyday. Those are all wins in my book. Okay, and packaging is often an overlooked emissions source. What changes make the biggest dent for you, and how did you get staff and customers buy in? Yeah that one is there's so many different ways you could go about it, right? So you could, do more of a reusable program, right? Reusable coffee mugs, reusable water glasses. We've done that in some of our corporate dining environments. You can get more compostable packaging, so the packaging will biodegrade with some compost. Right? That's another really great way to incorporate sustainable packaging. You could buy sustainable products that have been recycled, right? It's coming from a hundred percent recycled. You know, there's different ways. It's like just that cycle of making sure that, you're feeding back into the system. So I guess buying the post recycled, consumer packaging is also a, a fantastic way to incorporate it. Any experiments that didn't go as planned in trying to reduce disposables? Any lessons learned there? I think you have to be careful. I think one of the lessons I've, I've experienced, I've seen others experience is buying a sustainable like compostable package right or packaging. That packaging material needs to go in compost. It can't just go in the trash can. So it's like, so then do you have a place to compost it, right? So, so you have to understand, great, I'm buying this, but now it's gotta go in the compost and do I have a place to compost it? You know, a lot of food service sites might not have composting onsite, but there may be, you know, the city might have a composting program. There might be a partner just down the road, a university that's willing to collect it and so forth. So you kind of have to do your leg work on that one. That's a probably the biggest lesson I've heard from people. You know, years ago when we talked about sustainable packaging, it was like, well, great, you're serving sustainable, but I'm putting it in the garbage. So like, it's Cool. It needs to go where it can be composted. Yeah, of course. And you're operating at serious scale with thousands of kitchens. What do you think the industry still gets wrong when it comes to scaling sustainability? Woo. What do I think they get wrong? That's such a great question. I. From experience, one size does not fit all right, and every kitchen is different and in line of business, we're serving so many different communities, whether it's a student in a public school system or a senior at a congregate meal site. Some of them are already using reusables. It's great, right? And, and some, some places they're not. But I'm thinking, you know, plant-based, for example. It may not scale. We scale it where we can scale it and really promote it, but we have regulations around certain menus and they might have to have certain, high biological value of protein, which is animal protein, right? They might not recognise that, there's plant-based protein as readily. And so we need to make sure our menus have that so we might have less control. So it's not a hundred percent scalable. It can only, you know, only works in the businesses where you're less regulated. That's in the states, right? Like where we might have some menu regulations that would be around healthcare or K through 12 public schools or in senior congregate meal sites. So I think scalability, you really, really need to check into it. Everybody can do food waste though, Tom. I don't believe there's a reason why we can't manage our food waste, whether, you know, you're doing that from a production standpoint, you're looking at using the whole entire piece of the, the vegetable or the fruit as much as possible. So incorporating that into your recipes, then measuring it and tracking it and trying to reduce it. You could, you know, with that food waste very simply, they can donate it, donate it to people in need of additional foods. There's plenty of organisations out there that will work with you and connect you to local areas where the food may be needed. There's pig farmers that will, you know, collect that food, scrap not everywhere, so you know it, you might be in a location where that works. There's, you know, the ability to also compost. So either you're composting, you're, you're partnering with the city and composting, or some organisation. We're in several universities. We're serving food in several universities that the university compost, so it. It, that's a easy fix. And, we try to do that as much as possible. So I think food waste is really great. I think where people, where we struggle is probably that local and seasonal. Like what's local, especially in the states when it's broad. We have to think about our menus, right? Like it's a regional menu in the Midwest versus the south or you know, the Pacific. You gotta think a little bit regionally. So again, so scalability of one menu may not work across the whole entire US for us. So we have different regional menus. So you have to think about that. And then you gotta think about your menu.'cause you might not be able to get one species of fish that's sustainable for that menu. So it, it takes a little bit of knowledge, first of all, what's sustainable and, and that menu. And again, is it sustainable in Maine versus California? So we gotta, you know, you gotta really think about that too. And then I think the other point I was going to lean into again is like scalability of energy efficiency. Does it work? You know, do, does it make sense? if you're looking across the organ, do you own those places of business that you actually can make that impact? Or does somebody else own it? Right. So it's not a hundred percent scalable, but you do what you can where you can. Fair. Fair. And if any policy makers or regulators are listening, what's one thing they could do that would make sustainable food service more achievable? In our world probably really looking at how plants can contribute some protein to the diet and maybe allowing some of that and some of their regulations and standards when menuing making the equivalence truly equivalent first of all, and then allowing that to be there. So, I think that would be really helpful. I also think, really just general awareness and support and encouragement to be more sustainable. We try to do that and there's certainly a lot of government officials that it's really important to, but really promoting that and maybe even passing laws in some case that really promote more sustainability across food service as a whole. And how do you measure impact when it comes to community initiatives like nutrition education? What? What would you say there counts as a win? What counts as a win is if we're promoting in some way nutrition education. For me, it's obviously getting some healthier dish on the menu, and that could be plant-based of course, or plant forward. And then a little bit of education. I don't care if it's as simple as posting something. We create something every month for our units that we scale to make work for everybody that they could post and provide. So it's just a, you know, quick little tip a beautiful infographic, you know, talking about, you know, April, we always feature plant forward eating or plant-based eating. So just quick little tips and reminders. But, you know, I love it when our units actually bring something to life and do, you know, some, sampling of a, of a delicious, sustainable, nutritious recipe and spending a little time one-on-one with their customer talking about it. So that, that's my, that's my big win when you Okay. But I'll take just a little bit. Okay, great. Good. And looking forward in the next five, 10 years, do you think the meat consumption across society is going to fall significantly? Because globally, we're actually seeing it going up, which is a bad thing. So, how do you see that play out? How do I see that play out? I wish I could could foresee the future, and I, I, I, I hope that it, can go down, just slightly, because I think that would be helpful. Certainly from a climate perspective and a health perspective. Do I think personally it'll go down? It's a tough call 'cause I also, as a nutritionist, I, I see the world and how fixated we are on protein, right? And protein as a whole. And, and definitely the US population protein is always a trend. A nutrition trend or wellness trend and so I, with, with those groups, like, can I get 'em to decrease and understand they can get some protein elsewhere in their diet? I, I, I'm just hoping for the best, Tom. That's all I can say Okay, no worries. No worries. If you could have any person or character, alive or dead, real or fictional as a champion for sustainable or climate friendly meals, who would it be and why? Oh my goodness, that is a tough question. Oh, live or dead? I don't know. Real or fictional? Real or fictional? I guess I'm just gonna go with a superhero 'cause people seem to respond to superheroes. I, the biggest one, I don't know, maybe Iron Man. I'm not sure what the biggest one is in the us but I think superheroes, are always great. And especially for children, right? Like children, it, it starts young and making the, that transformation at a young age. So I, I'm gonna go with a superhero who that would be. There are so many nowadays. I am a big fan of many of them, but we'll go with Ironman today. Okay. Okay, We're coming towards the end of the podcast now, Sherie, is there any question I haven't asked that you wish I had or any aspect of this we haven't covered you think it's important for people to think about? It, it, no, I mean, I just hope that, you know, people that are listening have made that real connection, like food is contributing to our carbon footprint. And, you know, when they're making their choices to dine out, to kind of consider are they buying local? Can I get, you know, a plant forward dish, or a plant-based dish, whatever, whatever you're choosing for that day. And then personally, you know, making, taking that home with you and, and really thinking about your food waste and, what you're eating, what you're eating, and, then I guess plugging in for that sustainable packaging too. I think that's really important. Can you buy it even with less packaging material, that that's the first step, right? So, Sure. Great. Fantastic. So Cherri, if people would like to know more about yourself or any of the things we discussed in the podcast today, where would you have me direct them? I would direct them to Ellior North America's website. They can find all we're doing towards sustainability and wellness right from our website. Okay, perfect. Sherie, that's been really interesting. Thanks a million for coming on the podcast today. Yeah,. Thank you for having me, Tom. I appreciate it. Okay, we've come to the end of the show. Thanks everyone for listening. If you'd like to know more about the Climate Confident podcast, feel free to drop me an email to tomraftery at outlook. com or message me on LinkedIn or Twitter. If you like the show, please don't forget to click follow on it in your podcast application of choice to get new episodes as soon as they're published. Also, please don't forget to rate and review the podcast. It really does help new people to find the show. Thanks. Catch you all next time.